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_______________________________"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it." ~ General Douglas MacArthur ___________________________________________________________________"As long as I'm the President, we will stay, we will fight and we will win the war on terror." ~ President George W. Bush ___________________________________________________________________"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." ~ Martin Luther King Jr. ___________________________________________________________________"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~ Albert Einstein ___________________________________________________________________"He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees." ~ Benjamin Franklin ___________________________________________________________________"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle." ~ Confucius ___________________________________________________________________"We will confront emerging threats before they fully materialize. And if you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist." ~ President George W. Bush ___________________________________________________________________"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." ~ Winston Churchill ___________________________________________________________________"And so, my fellow Americans: Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: Ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." ~ John F. Kennedy ___________________________________________________________________"We have room for but one flag, the American flag ...We have room for but one language here and that is the English language ...and we have room for but one sole loyalty, and that is a loyalty to the American people." ~ Theodore Roosevelt ___________________________________________________________________"Righting America - One Reader at a Time." ~ Timmer

Tuesday, February 08, 2005

Conversation with a Liberal

Just had an email exchange with a Liberal after having left him my two cents on his website. Thought you might find this exchange interesting:

(Kevin the Liberal)
Before I begin, thank you for your service to our country. I have great respect for our Veterans and Civilians who have given so much time to the United States.

I was very glad to see that you took the time to respond in some detail - I admire folks who aren't afraid to defend their positions. Thanks for the kind words stated in your first sentence.

(Kevin the Liberal)
Now, let me pick you apart a bit. Like many on the far Right you wonder what Liberals are doing here if they don't like it. Answer: It's the best country in the world and I love it here, and exactly for this reason I intend on criticizing it. And since I am not in the upper 1 percent who received tax cuts, I don't have the money to go anywhere.

My question about why you are still here (in the U.S.) is, in my experience, a GREAT way to separate the liberal wheat from the chaff...that is, those who keep bitching about how they are sick of this country and want to emmigrate to Canada or France. Your answer to this question was the right one. (BTW, I am not on the far right, for the record). However, I take exception to much of what else you have to say:

There were LOTS of tax breaks with this president over the last four years for anyone who works - you seem to be stuck on a John Kerry talking point here with the "upper 1 percent" thing. Unfortunately, I am also in the lower 99% but enjoyed excellent tax breaks nonetheless. So did you, if you filed well and took advantage of them.

(Kevin the Liberal)
You ask me to provide good ideas instead of bashing the president. I provide lots of good ideas all the time. I work with government officials in improving my city. I'm not about to use my blog (which maybe 25 different people visit) to offer dissertations on the state of the union. This is a venting vehicle for me, not a think tank. I also can bash the president whenever he screws up...I have that right. I'm sure you bashed Clinton a bit.

Yes, I did criticize Bill Clinton (to friends, family and colleagues when appropriate) during the Lewinsky thing and at other times. As a military and intel guy, I was appalled at how he cut back on our defense and security - this might have helped to lead us to a treasury surplus, but this and his "drop a few bombs and be done with it" response to terrorist acts helped to set the stage for 9-11-01 and our reduced ability to respond militarily. However, I accepted his presidency when he was elected and would have willingly followed his orders into harm's way.

YES, you absolutely have the right to speak your mind. So do Michael Moore, Howard Stern and so many others. Difference is, you espouse these views on a BLOG which invites response - I am happy to give responses and encourage the same on my own blog.

(Kevin the Liberal)
You ask me to name just 1 president who didn't make mistakes in war. No. They all do. You're right. But how many CHOSE to go to war...chose the time, the place, the enemy? This was an OPTION for Bush, not a requirement. When you choose to go to war as an option, you better damn well have your act together.

On war in Iraq - I think you know that WMDs were not the only issue, but the entire civilized world had every reason to believe that Saddam had them still. Remember, just because we haven't found them DOES NOT prove that they were never there. In addtion, there were 17 UN resolutions that Iraq had not abided, inspectors were being bullied and our aircraft were being fired upon virtually EVERY DAY in the Southern No-Fly-Zone. Add this to Saddam's propensity to attack his neighbors, known ties to terrorists AND his unlimited potential for oil wealth and we were looking at a recipe for international DISASTER. We have now discovered Oil-for-Food corruption to the tune of over 20 BILLION in Saddam's own pockets, secret deals with some of our most powerful "allies" for weapons and Security Council votes, and a proven intention to restart his nuclear program once inspections ceased. Do you KNOW what would have happened had we not gone into Iraq? I don't, but I shudder to think about the possibilities.

(Kevin the Liberal)
The story of the Iraqi woman hugging the soldier's mom was not inspiring to me. I don't eat up propaganda. They were props my friend. They did everything on cue. If Bush wants to pay tribute to that mother he should've started by not sending her son off to die.

You are not moved emotionally by a free election in a sovereign Iraq? You honestly think that whole thing was staged at the inauguration? I think it was calculated to put the Iraqi woman and the Marine's parents in proximity, but what went down at that moment was totally unscripted. Either that, or these non-actors deserve an Oscar for their performances.

(Kevin the Liberal)
I will not be visiting your blog. I hear enough Right-Wing nonsense in the media all the time. I can't take much more. Thanks though.

I have no illusions about changing your mind, Kevin. Opposition like yours is part of the puzzle that makes this the greatest country on Earth. However, I am guessing that you have had few (or none?) try to explain the other side to you. Like I said, BLOGS invite response, and discourse is healthy. I hope you reconsider visiting my BLOG and giving it your two cents.

All the best, Timmer


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Retired Navy and Cold War/Gulf War Veteran. Senior Analyst for a large defense contractor, Bachelor of Science, Father, moonlighting Graphic Designer (T-shirts etc) and Blogger.

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